Wednesday, March 18, 2009
Support for Muslims Against Sharia
We will post some of the emails we receive in the comments section.
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81 comments:
Email from JB:
Dear Sir or Madam:
I am writing as an American citizen and as a Christian to wholeheartedly support the goals of your organization which include reforming certain aspects of Islam and preventing the spread of Sharia law whose implementation would require cutting off the hands of thieves for example. I believe that a reform movement within Islam led by Muslims is the only way that a true reformation will finally take place as has happened already in the world of Christendom and was led by Christians first and foremost. Thank you very much.
Sincerely,
Nothing says this association is led by Muslims...
"Inconsistencies in the Koran" --> This means Koran has some errors. No muslims can say that ! It is simply unbelievable muslims would say that Koran has some inconsustencies.
"While neither Testament calls for mass murder of" --> There are some verses calling for that. I will be back.
"We must remove evil passages from Islamic religious texts" --> Like Christians and Jew did for Old and New Testaments ? No thanks ! May be you could have said, we will reexplain some misunderstood passages but remove them ??? How muslims can say that ?
"Islamic supremacy doctrine is just as repulsive as Aryan supremacy doctrine." Comparing Islam to Nazi regime is simply propaganda and brainwashing for the readers of this site.
"Outdated verses" you have selected hundreds. This means that a great percentage of Koran is incorrect or incoherent and "must be removed". What a great idea.
I don't have enough evidences that you are not muslims. So I won't express myself about this point. But hypocrysis won't lead anywhere.
I wish and pray for your success. Make your voices heard loud and clear!!!
What I fear is another wave of attacks, in America or the West, which will push us all to the brink and it will be so much harder for you to pursue your cause.
As you know, the Koran sets it up so that non-Muslims never know when to believe or trust Muslims who say they are moderate: taqiyya, you know. And also "Hudaibiya" a well-understood Islamic code-word which, in brief, means "Kiss the hand of your enemy until you can cut it off."
I am torn every day of my life as I deal with Muslims from Bangledesh and India, treating them as I do anyone else and always wondering if I am the ill-fated fool for doing so.
That's why I am so relieved to learn of your group and to hear from you.
Please forgive us westerners for being suspicious, and needing proof or reassurance when we open our hearts to you. Please be patient with us. We need a way to know for sure what type of Muslim we are dealing with, and of course that's difficult. But we will always hope for the best, and strive to treat others as we would like to be treated.
At the same time, we cannot afford to be naive and to risk our survival and that of the free world... which is exactly what is at stake here.
Let's keep in touch!!!
God bless you.
I am the author/owener of the web site Jihad Spin at www.jihadspin.com. I was pointed to your site and was reading pretty much every thing you have written here. I am in support of your efferts to reform islam and denounce terrorism by the Muslim Fundamentalists, Islamic Extremists or Islamofascists and to remove the jihad versus from the qur'an so that islam can be a "religion of peace" after 1400 years of jihad against non-muslims and the hatred of the jews. I am writting to ask if I may put a link on my main web site under the Friends of JihadSpin section so that as many people as possible may see what you are doing. I also invite all who read your blog to my forum for discussions of islam and jihad at www.jihadspin.com/forum.
You may email me at adminstrator@jihadspin.com
Thank You
JihadSpinAdmin
Kaiser,
"Koran has some errors. No muslims can say that !" "We must remove evil passages from Islamic religious texts. How muslims can say that ?"
Some Muslims would consider changing the Koran a blasphemy. Other Muslims would consider murder in the name of Islam a blasphemy. In case it was not clear, we are the other Muslims.
""Islamic supremacy doctrine is just as repulsive as Aryan supremacy doctrine." Comparing Islam to Nazi regime is simply propaganda and brainwashing for the readers of this site."
You seem to fail to understand what "supremacy doctrine" is. We are not comparing Islam with a Nazi regime. Just as the statement "Christian supremacy doctrine is just as repulsive as Aryan supremacy doctrine." Would not compare Christianity to a Nazi regime.
I wanna ask you something, if you don't mind : PROVE you are muslims. Next, we will continue to discuss.
That is the funniest request we received so far. How can someone prove that his/her beliefs? Can you prove your beliefs?
The quickest way for islam to reform is through bloodless social linchpin laws throughout the world.
http://bloodlesslinchpinsofislamicterrorism.blogspot.com/
This is a very interesting site. And of course a very worthy goal.
In this last year or so my positions on this whole subject have hardened. Unfortunately, I am finding it increasingly difficult to trust Muslims or to believe what they say. I don't think that this skepticism is completely unwarranted.
As others have rightly pointed out, lying and deceit are considered legitimate weapons of defense in the Muslim world. Successful deception of an adversary is not only condoned, it is honored.
I realize that these statements put true Muslim reformers in a difficult bind; but these statements come from the Muslims themselves, not from their detractors.
Obviously I welcome any internal dissent in the universal ummah, and I wholeheartedly support any Muslims who are truly fighting for a redefinition of Islam, minus the intolerance and hate. But, we are not the ones who created this atmosphere of distrust and suspiscion.
When the American Muslim community starts really getting serious in their efforts at internal reform, when they start picketing those American mosques who clandestinely continue to preach hatred of the West and call for the adoption of sharia law. When their voices beacome at least as loud as CAIR and their associates, then I will stand up and take notice.
If this group on this site is one of these voices of dissent, then I certainly wish them well. I will continue to come here and I will continue to read what you have to say.
Again, forgive my skepticism; it is a recently learned trait.
radarsite,
How can their [moderate] voices possibly become at least as loud as CAIR and their associates, when the FBI uses CAIR to teach Muslim sensitivity classes, when the DOJ takes part in ISNA conference, when the mayor of New York takes part in an Islamist parade, and when American mosques & Middle East studies departments of American universities are controlled by the Saudis? Not to mention millions of dollars being pumped by the Saudis into CAIR & Co. Is it fair to blame only Muslims for what’s going on in the Muslim world when the West is giving billions of dollars to the Muslim radicals? How’s that for Taqiyya?
Point taken. And it is a good one.
Our problems are definitely not just with Muslims. I recently wrote an article on this very subject.
Just to be clear, there is nothing I would like more than to have my skepticism shown to be misplaced -- as it very well might be. However, since the day of that Presidential Interfaith Service, immediately following 9/11, when the invited Muslim religious speaker turned out later to be a supporter of terrorist organizations; since so many of our Middle Eastern Studies Professors turned out to be Holocaust Deniers and supporters of those who would utterly destroy Israel, etc., I have learned to be a little wary. I remember a time when I truly believed that CAIR represented the voice of moderate Muslims and Muslim charity organizations were just that.
I don't like being a skeptic. I was not born to be a skeptic, and am not by nature a cynic. I usually believe what people tell me. But when it comes to Muslims, I have learned -- by their actions -- to be suspicious of their ulterior motives.
This is indeed unfortunate and it makes your work all the harder, and I am sorry for that. But I do not see this as my problem alone.
Once again, I will follow your movement with great interest and I hope that my skepticism quickly melts away.
radarsite,
Use a litmus test. No radical Muslim would ever admit that Muhammad’s relationship with Aisha would amount to pedophelia by modern standards. Taqiyya or no taqiyya he would not be able to force himself to say that. I’m not saying that every moderate Muslim would be progressive enough to admit that, but if he does, he is for sure not a radical. But, a less shocking test, if someone agrees that CAIR or their ilk are terrorists in sheep’s clothing and no terrorist act can be justified, chances are he is OK.
Plateau wrote:
Muslims against sharia:
I am unsure about your stance, but it seems comforting.
I suggest, instead of trying to influence the West about YOU "being against Sharia", you convince your own radical faction, which is much more vocal, than you, and has been, more than any other "western" group.
After all, if there is ever going to be a reform of any kind or as you may call it the true nature of Islam, it must come from within your own Muslims and Islam.
Here is my blog url since you don't allow other than blogspot users to comment here.
http://plateauofiran.wordpress.com/
Plateau,
There is a better chance of convincing a wolf to become a vegetarian than convincing radical Muslims (religious fanatics) to give up Jihad. However, if the West stopped supporting radical Muslims at home and abroad, we could deal with them.
Email from MJ:
I was so thrilled to see your website. It gave me such hope to know there are Muslims that don't like what is going on in the world with the extreme idealogy. Thank you, thank you and thank you. God Bless you and I wish I could help.
Email from HRC:
Your site seems a most interesting and timely initiative - reforming Islam before it gets an irreversible bad name is urgent. The fundamentalists and the terrorist are stealing the limelight, so I appreciate, encourage and publish any initiative to the countrary.
Which leads me to - do you publish a newsletter that can tip me off on new stories on your site? If so, please subscribe me.
Email from ER:
I saw your Web site and support your work.
I am a reconstructionist jew and also know that there is a lot in the Jewish torah that we can't take literally and must reject or reinterpret. My concern about Islam is that the extreme clerics do take the difficult passages in the Koran literally. I have had them quoted to me by muslims telling me why they feel people give jews a hard time; they deserve it, it is written in the Koran that they will get this type of treatment, etc. My own tradition rejects the Jewish concept of the "chosen people". I agree wth this. If muslims, jews, and christians all believe that they are Gd's chosen, then of course people will go to war.
You write about MAS and CAIR on your site. These organizations present themselves as human rights organizations. How is it possible that they are part of the Muslim Brotherhood and have managed to hide this? If is is true that they have these ties, how is it possible to expose them?
ER,
You asked important questions. There are excellent books by Steven Emerson, American Jihad & Jihad Incorporated. They detail radical roots/connections of every major Islamist PR group operating in the USA. How is it possible that they have managed to hide those connections? American gullibility, mainstream media stupidity, and bureaucratic laziness would be the main reasons. How is it possible to expose them? The ties are no secret, but people just don’t want to concern themselves with those problems. And what can you expect from an average American when one of the foremost American academic institutions invites one of the foremost enemies of the United States to speak at its campus? Islamic terrorism will not destroy America. PC-BS and complacency will.
Earlier I said that I would come back here again and would follow your work with interest. Since then I have spoken with a friend whom I would consider to be an Islamic scholar and asked him to visit your site and give me his opinion.
His answers and your "litmus test" were very close in their reasoning, and both arrived at the same conclusions.
I stated in my earlier comments that I would like nothing better than to have my skepticism proven to be unfounded. It seems that this is just what's happened. It appears that you are indeed just what you present yourselves to be, and I can only applaud your efforts and offer whatever encouragement I can and wish you well.
As promised, I will continue following your progress and try to spread your message of hope.
Best wishes,
Roger G.
Email from TB:
Hi,
I found your website on the Internet recently. I really do wish you all the best. I personally think your message is the way forward for all moderate Muslims. I am not a Muslim myself but I have been very concerned about the way things have been going here in the UK. You would certainly have my support if you established a presence over here.
Anyway, best of luck. As Confucius said, the longest journey starts with a single step.
TB
Hello,
I really like the fact, that there are Muslims who believe Islam must be reformed. I wish you to find supporters of this cause, have success, and remember that two hundred or so years ago, when Western nations were still controlled by the Christian papacy, they were not much better than Muslim countries today.
What changed them was the jump to secularism... and, actually, it wasn't a jump, but a slow process which took tenths of years.
I want to know are there many Muslims, that you know and that share with you the same idea about reforming Islam?
It is impossible to quantify the percentage of Muslims who feel the need for reform, because many Muslims are scared to make their views of Islam public. We believe that we represent a significant minority, and by discussing the issues of reform we will get more and more Muslims onboard. One of the big problems is that many Muslims live in closed societies, with no ability to communicate with the outside world, and their information flow is controlled by local imams, with virtually none of them holding reformist views.
What! Do you believe in part of the Book and disbelieve in part? What, then, shall be the reward of those of you who do that but ignominy in the life of this-world and, on the Day of Resurrection to be returned unto the most grievous suffering (al-Baqarah 2: 85)
Might as well call yourselves Muslims against Islam. Anyone who has basic knowledge of Islam will obviously know that you cannot be muslims. Do you even know what the sharia is? or do you think sharia means cutting off hands of thieves, executing adulterers, and so on?
ibn Abu Jetmir,
So, according to you it is OK to believe in two parts of the same book that contradict each other? What would that be, morons against logic? It might benefit you to read our manifesto before passing judgments. Might save you some embarrassment.
Comment by VH regarding bounty for al-Qaeda.
I understand. Believe me I am all for al-Qaeda being dismantled. They do not deserve to live, and do not deserve to go out as martyrs. I was just taken aback a bit at first.
I applaud what your group is doing. I hope you know that.
Take care VH
Wow. I am very impressed by your point of view, if you truly are "Muslims" in the absolute theological sense.
I am an ex-Muslim and my blog is dedicated to several things, including defending Islam from UNFAIR criticism... and subjecting Muslims/Islam to a bit of genuinely well intended and funny satire. :)
Your point of view is a positive sign, although I just HAVE to ask... how do you theologically arrive at your argument against the Shariah?
Feel free to visit my blog to know where I'm coming from:
http://towelianism.wordpress.com/manifesto
The blog belongs to a NUMBER of apostates of Islam who do NOT hate Islam... we just disagree with it.
To “theologically arrive”, you must be a theologian, which none of us are. We based our arguments on humanitarian perspective. If that makes those arguments invalid in the eyes of cave-dwelling fundamentalists, so be it. They also reject the argument for the need of personal hygiene. We don’t see this issue as Islamic vs. Unislamic. We see it more as barbaric vs. pragmatic, as a part of natural evolution within Islam.
Email from M
Greetings. This might puzzle you, but as an athiest I was very much pleasantly surprised when I stumbled upon your website. In my opinion you portray non-biast views and refuse to cower to propaganda, be it anti-western or otherwise. I have read a good number of your articles and even though some might be quotes or sources from other sites, it's fantastic to see so many together and not removed because some terror-supporter found them 'offensive'. I hope that your website continues to function and certainly thrive, and wish you and everyone involved the best of luck in convincing the Western World that not all Muslims are hellbent on blowing things up. Sadly it's not an easy task, but it's certainly possible.
Keep fighting the good fight, if that's the right word to use!
Thank you for visiting my blog. I'm a great admirer of your religion, culture and civilization. And you are right about Turkey and the Armenian genocide.
www.execout.blogspot.com
if you are muslim mark my word by allah i will not let you nor your "moderate muslims" take over. i would rather die a thousand deaths than live the life you live.. you will be humiliated in this life and the next inshallah.. may allah swt guide this ummah on the right path and crush those who wish to change this deen to make the kuffar happy.
revivalist786
"i would rather die a thousand deaths"
You have no idea how happy it would make us to accommodate you. Please let us know how we can help.
Email from CA:
I would like to thank you for commenting on my blog, and also informing
me (with a link) to your website. It is most impressive, and I would
like to link to it, and promo it if you have no objections. I believe
word of the work you are doing needs to be brought out to as many people
as possible.
Now I have a question to ask, and I know it's a rather bold one at that.
Would you, or any of your other writers be interested in contributing as
a writer on my blog? You could post as often, or occasionally as you'd
like. It would be a mutually beneficial partnership if you were to accept.
I really have only positive things to say regarding what you are doing,
and if I can do any small part to help, I'd be honored.
Email from E:
Your site is fabulous.
I am Jewish, and believe Islam in its true form is beautiful and peaceful.
After thinking about this site for a while, I have concluded that either you are not Muslims and do this without really knowing the impact of your Manifesto or...
You are Muslims who are culturally so, but not particularly religious.
Otherwise how could you make such profoundly true statements and conclude that it just needs some editing. My goodness, Islam stands or falls on the Koran -- It is claimed to be the perfect and inerrant word of Allah spoken through and angel to Mohammad. If you admit the thousands of violent, domineering, atavistic and mysogynist passages why are you still Muslim? There is nothing left. Islam's holy book has just been declared a man-made fraud by you. You are right, you are courageous and you need to abandon this terrible belief system.
Good luck,
Email from CL:
Hello,
Some time ago, you (or someone in your organization) replied to a blog I'd posted.
I'm sorry but I didn't see the comment till today (the date was back in August.)
I didn't write the blog, and have stopped writing blogs alltogether as I get so much
info on the bad side of Islam I figure I might just as well pass it on.
Just wanted to let you know it's a delight to find your organization. I'd given up hope for
any reformation of fundamental Islam.
So, thanks!
Comment from CG:
I have seen your posts on Jihad Watch and seen your website. You are fighting an uphill battle against a very well armed, well funded, and fanatical foe: Militant Wahbahist Islam (on the Sunni side) and Maadi doom's day/end of days prophets (on the Shia side). Mix into this several other jihad preaching, violent Imams and well, you have an uphill battle.
I have to laugh at the leftist (Blueduck) who posted on your site. His ignorance bleeds through every word he types. The left FULLY supports the above mentioned jihadists and ACTIVELY seeks to assist them.
Good luck and stay safe. My experience in Iraq indicates these jihadists will gleefully kill "apostates" as enthusiastically as they kill "kuffer". I can only imagine the death threats and other insults you get from "Muslim" websites.
Email from DC:
I pray for a day that you can feel comfortable and safe publicly revealing your identity. Best of luck to you.
Email from AB:
I saw your very interesting web page and specially your Manifesto. You have done something very valuable there which many talk about but really nobody does - making precise statements about what must be removed from the Qouran.
Comment from GM:
If anything the Islamofascists are worse than actual fascists, as horrible as they are. By the way Muslims against sharia, thank you for speaking out. The side of freedom and civilization needs more muslims like yourself to take an active stance against these barbarians who want to destroy us.
KM,
Thanks for visiting 123beta and leaving a comment. Your site is certainly refreshing.
I'm hosting a trackback post this weekend and I'm inviting you to send me a trackback on the Steve Emerson post.
The Trackback url is:
http://www.haloscan.com/tb/tele64/1686301354734168494/
Good stuff!
Butch
It really angers me some of the unfair criticism, suspicion I read in some (not all!)of these comments. We as non Muslims turn to Muslims and ask you to reform...When an an organisation like your selves attempt to get that movement under way you receive scepticism, death threats and suspicion. It's unfair.
For my part I ask,
1/ do you accept loyalty to the nation you live in above your religion?
2/Do you support Muslims who serve in the military even when this means their country send them to war against a Muslim nation?
I think I know where you stand on this, so i ask more to help deflect accusations of deception. In the same way it is wrong to blame all White people for the actions of the KKK, or all black people for the actions of (for example) a degenerate drug dealer, it is also wrong to blame all Muslims for the actions of Al Qaeda, especially, especially when said Muslims stand up and say 'NOT IN MY NAME!' Your stance against Sharia is particularly credit worthy, let us not forget that Christians and Jews were in days past just as unsophisticated in our religious laws as Sharia law is today, not that I am any better than you. Best regards lads!
"do you accept loyalty to the nation you live in above your religion?"
Absolutely. Religion is a private matter and patriotism is a public matter.
"Do you support Muslims who serve in the military even when this means their country send them to war against a Muslim nation?"
Of course. Besides, every time the West goes to war with a Muslim nation, it frees millions of Muslims from oppressive regimes.
Email from TF:
We should fight for the "Right to blasphemy with impunity"
Email from G.
I sincerely hope you succeed in your work. I know it won't be easy.
But it is sites like yours that can make a difference and I know there are many people out there who feel the same as I do.I am convinced that all many muslims just want to live peaceful lives - we all do: it is a human condition.
I can't help quoting Winston Churchill:
"never give up".
My best wishes to all of you
Email from RS:
Thank God; a group like yours is the only hope for maybe avoiding WWIII. I don't blame a lot of Muslims for being disgusted at the West because all they see is the rotten part portrayed in the media and Hollywood.
I hope you will take it upon yourself to actually edit the Koran and Hadith, get it printed, and then distribute it all over the world, or perhaps have it downloadable over the internet. Start a whole global movement. It will drive the Jihadis crazy but might save the world.
What a lot of violent Muslims don't realize is this: the weakness, moral corruption and cowardice of western societies is made up of only a small minority of liberals and leftists that control the media and government.
At a certain point terrorism and Muslim supremecists will push western societies over the edge; the liberals will be swept out of power and all the powers of the west will be devoted to killing Muslims. All the trillions of dollars and untold energy now being spent on cosmetics, new cars, houses, and careers will be spent on Total War. Europeans are actually really good at mass killing once they get backed into a wall.
Muslim extremists right now are really getting arrogant, feeling like they are winning against the west. They don't seem to understand that the only reason they are winning right now is because the west is being really, really nice to them. Trying to be gentle, fair, humane, kind, etc. Once enough westerners die from nerve gas attacks, nukes in cities, massacres at elementary schools, etc, that will stop. A single U.S. submarine has enough missiles to wipe out virtually all of Iran's entire population in a few minutes. A lot of Americans would seriously like to do that right now.
Evil destroys itself. The West learned only recently that stomping on others religions is bad karma and leads to horrid destruction on both sides. I pray the Jihadis wake up before it's too late.
Thank you again for your efforts, I hope you get all the support you need from others to go ahead and start a mass movement to reform Islam. And please stay safe.
Email from JD:
Folks,
Way to go!!!
America has been waiting for people like you to take initiative. I hope that your efforts will bear fruit to help this country become a better place, and that you will be recognized for your efforts.
There is not much more I can add. Reading your home page gives me a sliver of hope that America may have a future...
Thanks again, keep up the good work, and most importantly, please keep yourself safe...
Email from MS:
Dear Reform Islam,
Three cheers to you! Let's hope your message goes far and wide. At last, sanity!!
Email from RC:
Dear Khalim Massoud and all Associates,
Thank you. Thank you for just living, let alone standing up for what is right. Had almost given up hope that there may be a Muslim out there with the ability to think rationally, and thus succumb to thoughts of eternal war,... quite distressing, believe me.
A positive ray of light has entered my life... you.
Mt best to you all. Will help when I am able, as today I will start to inform those known to me that you exist.
sincerely,
RC
Email from J.
Mash
You are brave, and are surely risking your life and reputation in
doing what so many moderates refuse to do: Reform Islam.
I commend you on your bravery and will do anything I can to help in
your cause.
Thank you for doing what so many good muslims won't do.
You are rare, and I pray your cause succeeds.
Thank you
J.
InfidelsAreCool.com
Comment by M.
You are Nobel prize winning heroes in my opinion. If I had money I would send it to you.
Email from S.G.V.
I must admire you and your team members for undertaking such a massive project. Wish you all the best for a successful venture.
Email from W.E.
I am truly impressed to learn of your initiative (via AtlasShrugs) which in my opinion is the only peaceful possible approach to the conflict we are facing.
Wishing you all the best in your endeavor,
Comment by D.S.
Good luck, and God bless your efforts
Email from N.K.
... I totally endorse what you are doing. In fact, I have shared your website with numerous people since you came aboard and outside of the American Islamic Forum for Democracy & Free Muslims.org, I think you have the best site out there. In fact, because your site is the only one of the three calling for the removal of those atrocious verses in the Koran, I believe you are head and shoulders above the rest in the reform movement. Many, many thanks for your excellent efforts.
Email from JK:
I read your web-page 'Muslims Against Sharia'. Congratulations!! It
was like a ray of hope in a dark tunnel. Murder by anyone in the
name of religion is abhorrent. I hope you continue your good work
spreading the message of universal peace and understanding. All
religions together seeking the truth. Christians also have a long
way to go in this area, with many of their texts referring to Christ
as the ONLY one. I pray for the time when all religions will stand
hand in hand, as equals, with equal respect for one another.
Email from JG:
I hope your voice grows.
Religion throughout has been all too often used as an excuse to violate neighbor and brother alike, suppressing natural human rights. Your site and blog is a breath of fresh air.
Keep up the good work!
muslims against sharia (MASH) responded to "Kaiser" with this comment:
"Some Muslims would consider changing the Koran a blasphemy."
The use of the word "Some" is disingenuous, and makes me suspicious of MASH. Had they used the phrase "The vast majority of Muslims", my misgivings would begin to be mollified.
While "some" could be technically correct (since "some" can be really any amount in between "all" and "none"), it conveys the impression of not being the majority -- and certainly not the vast majority.
"Some" in this context is simply unacceptable.
Erich,
We've yet to find a reasonable Muslim who disagrees with us that the Koran must be changed after he/she is presented with our arguments.
muslims against sharia (MASH) responded to the rational skepticism of "radarsite" with this response:
"Use a litmus test. No radical Muslim would ever admit that Muhammad’s relationship with Aisha would amount to pedophelia by modern standards. Taqiyya or no taqiyya he would not be able to force himself to say that."
One litmus test alone is not sufficient. A whole battery of questions would need to be answered.
Another litmus question to add would be the following, which I would like to pose to MASH:
What do you think Muslims should do in the following situation:
You live in a society with many Muslims (they could be a minority or a majority, it doesn't matter, since it is safe to assume that there will be no Islamic laws governing that society right?).
Over time, many different people start criticizing AND mocking Prophet Mohammed. Some of these critics/mockers are ordinary people who do their criticism/mockery in relatively small ways -- letters to the editor, writing blogs, organizing small community theater to put on satirical plays about Mohammed, organizing local debate clubs, standing at a bus stop and talking to someone about how bad Mohammed is in a voice that can be heard by people around them; etc. Other critics/mockers are more influential, some of them even famous, and they regularly either criticize Mohammed intellectually, or lampoon Mohammed with silly jokes making fun of him in every imaginable way -- on television, in movies, in books, in newspapers, magazines, the Internet etc.
Okay, here's the litmus question: what do you (MASH) think Muslims should do in such a social climate described above?
1) Only express your dislike of these critics/mockers within the law, by writing letters to the editor, organizing a peaceful protest outside the offices of the CEO of the mocker, etc. -- all with the intent of expressing your dislike and hoping that people will see your side of the issue, which you offer up peacefully.
2) Demand and expect that the critics/mockers be punished?
To put the question another way: Will you accept living in a society where people are free to criticize and mock Prophet Mohammed in the public square, without any threat of punishment (physical, legal or otherwise) -- and in fact, in a society where anybody who tries to punish those critics/mockers will THEMSELVES be punished by the law?
Erich,
That's a good litmus test. I hope our definition of a moderate Muslim answers your questions.
Muslims Against Sharia,
You referred me to your Moderate Muslim definition table to answer my question.
However, I only see there that in your definition, Moderate Muslims support "criticism of Islam". I see nothing there about supporting MOCKERY of Mohammed.
I remember having a discussion with a Muslim who answered my question by saying, "Sure, I would support criticism of Mohammed if it were done respectfully and intelligently in an academic type setting; but to mock and make fun of Mohammed? No way!"
So "criticism of Islam" isn't good enough. The moderate Muslim must support the FREEDOM of individuals or groups to MOCK and to DENIGRATE Mohammed in ways that the West allows for example in the mockery and denigration of Jesus Christ (example, the popular art exhibit in a major New York City museum called "Piss Christ" with a crucifix immersed in the artist's own urine; or the hundreds of comedy skits I have seen on American television making brutal fun of Jesus, Moses, Christians, the Catholic Church, even God Himself!).
And furthermore the FREEDOM which Moderate Muslim supports has to be PROTECTED UNDER LAW -- i.e., if anybody tries to physically harm or ostracize the mocker in any way (like discriminating at the workplace or firing from a job), the person trying to harm or ostracize the mocker would be punished under law, to protect the mocker. Freedom means little unless it is protected under law.
If you can't support all of what I describe above, I'm afraid you're not really moderate in any meaningful sense.
Erich,
If you do not consider "Reaction to criticism of Islam or Prophet Muhammad" - "Reason / No reaction" to be a moderate response, let me clarify. People should be free to mock Prophet Muhammad. While vast majority of the mockery is manifestation of bad taste or outright stupidity, people should be free to act as stupid as they want, as long as their stupidity does not cause physical harm to others.
muslims against sharia,
"We've yet to find a reasonable Muslim who disagrees with us that the Koran must be changed after he/she is presented with our arguments."
The question then becomes, how many of these "reasonable Muslims" (as you define it) exist in the world?
Secondly, the way you've phrased your answer doesn't offer much hope: you are essentially saying that you have not met a "reasonable Muslim" who disagrees about the necessity of changing the Koran after you have presented them with your arguments. That reduces the pool of Muslims considerably, since it only by your own words includes those you have had discussions with about this.
The number of the remainder of "reasonable Muslims" in the world -- outside of your experience of presenting arguments to them -- would only be a guess on your part.
So let's get back to my original point: Are you saying the vast majority of Muslims would be "reasonable" after you presented them with your arguments?
Erich ,
“how many of these "reasonable Muslims" (as you define it) exist in the world?”
Check the results of the first poll: http://www.reformislam.org/polls/
“That reduces the pool of Muslims considerably, since it only by your own words includes those you have had discussions with about this.”
As usual, you’re reaching.
“Are you saying the vast majority of Muslims would be "reasonable" after you presented them with your arguments?”
No, we’re not saying that.
I asked
“how many of these "reasonable Muslims" (as you define it) exist in the world?”
And you answered:
Check the results of the first poll:
http://www.reformislam.org/polls/
I pasted that link into my browser and clicked, and it took me to the poll.
But I saw no "results". Where are the "results"?
There is a "View" button at the bottom of the poll.
Email from BM:
I just discovered your site and I would like to congratulate you on your vision for the reform of Islam, which is absolutely necessary if we ever hope to stop the terrorism, brutality, inhumanity and killing that's so rampant today. This is the very first positive thing I've read about Islam and I hope with all my heart you are successful in your endeavor. Until tonight every Muslim site and communication I've seen has focused on conquest, domination, subjugation and death, and has been rife with bigotry and hatred.
Thank you for the breath of fresh air and for lighting a candle that we can all hope will become a beacon of light for a future peace together as one human race.
Comment from N.
I admire the work you're doing, showing the world not all Muslims are like Bin Laden and Al-Qaradawi.
Keep up the good work!
Email from SM:
Dear Reform Muslims
I am glad to know you exist. I appreciate your statement on behalf of free speech in Denmark. Please continue to issue statements to Radical Muslim governments such as Afghanistan and its death penalty to journalists.
Email from KH:
Dear Sirs,
Please forgive me for my intrusion. I read about your webpage through a column of Nahed Selim, a Dutch moslima
who fights against radicalisation of Islam and all the negative stuff that comes with it. I was very pleasantly surprised
by the information I saw there, especially by your edited version of the Koran. I think it takes a lot of courage to
do this. I must admit that I had already given up hope about muslims and the islamization of the world, and thought
that there wa sno other scenario thinkable than a bloody war.
I hope that your initiative (if sincere of course, one can never be sure from a webpage) will be extremely successful
and that you will gather all muslims of the world behind you.
Peace and wisdom be with you.
Email from Jill Infidel:
Sorry if the email address is offensive. I want to keep my true identity private. I don't want to be the next Geert Wilders...
But I did want to say how great it is that you are trying to bring Islam into the 21st century and get rid of the parts of Islam that are not good for society and the world. I support what you are doing and the right to practice the religion of your choice. I wish success for you and hope that Muslims all over the world will embrace peace. We Americans do not wish to persecute any group as long as everyone can live in peace.
Good Luck to you and your group.
a Christian
Email from AM:
hi -- i very much admire and support what you are doing. self examination that brings about change is the highest calling, and the most difficult. Islam is very lucky to have members like you. what you are doing takes great courage. you make me feel like there is hope for the world.
please write about your process and publish it. it would be great if the maximum number of people could read about what it was like to go through what you are doing.
i beleive your religion will only be made stronger by self examination.
i am sorry to know that you will be receiving death threats and many angry emails. from the outside, it seems like the angry people are actually scared inside themselves.
i look forward to a time the US government and citizens alike Acknowledge mistakes, Accept Responsibility, and Move Forward.
my best to you.
Email from BP:
Hello
Greetings. As a Christian minister and theologian I was amazed to read your site and have publicised it on my own website along with the full text of your home page. I have also published your email regarding the Jerusalem atrocity.
Though I cannot accept the religious claims of Islam, I commend you for your attempt to reform Islam, as a fellow human being, and for showing tolerance for other religions. In this your views are the same as my own.
May I point something out? In your home page statement you attribute the Crusades to 'Christian fundamentalists'. This is a mistake that even Christians make. The Crusades were started and conducted by the Roman Catholic church, not by Christians.
Just as you want to separate yourself from terrorists, so genuine Christians have no point of similarity with Roman Catholicism. Indeed, we call the Catholic religion false and not part of the Christian church, despite its huge size and influence. Perhaps you could consider this.
Meanwhile, I thank you, that you are able, as Muslims, to read this email without wanting to kill me as an infidel! I wish you well with your venture.
Regards
Email from PC:
Good Morning to All -
I have spent much of the last hour reading through material on your web site having found it through the Anti-CAIR page and your banner displayed on their main page. Along with a couple of other sites that profess to support reform of Islam, I find that your manifesto is well stated and I am in support of those ideals and your position.
However, I feel that some of what is not listed should be included and it may be but, only covered in generalities stated. I feel that Muslim women should be given the same status as women in the Christian Bible in that they are considered to be "suitable helpers" for their husbands and that the husband should love and cherish her the same as Jesus loves His Church. As is, women are demeaned and their status in the Koran is little more than animals and their whole purpose is to serve their husband. Women have contributed much more than that to society and should be given equal status and privilege within Islam.
My background is that I am a Christian and will always be. I believe my Bible and what Jesus taught us as he spoke for God the Father. I also believe that there are portions of the Bible that were not included that may have not been to the liking of those to assembled it in the early days as to why they were omitted. I do not believe the text has been altered from the original to provide for someone's agenda. As for the Koran, there are many parallels in that book to the Bible. There are also obvious passages that were written to promote the personal position of the writer and do not reflect the true nature of a loving and compassionate God. It is for that reason that the majority of Christians do not believe that they share the same "God" as Muslims do. Our God does not condone or recommend killing of ANYONE as in the Koran. Jesus taught everyone to love their enemies. Love does not mean to allow one's self to be overran and dominated but, to attend to their needs and welfare with "unconditional" (non-prejudicial) acceptance. Once reformed Islam can accept that teaching and put it into practice will we be able to realize peaceful relationships between Muslims and Christians in America.
For the past three years, I have been involved with an organization as part of the Dept. of Homeland Security and there are many papers and articles concerning radical Islam, under several names, that I have read. If Islam is to ever have a peaceful place in American society, then those promoting "moderate" and reformed Islam must strongly condemn the radicals positions and choose who they will stand by. It needs to be made known publicly that they are reforming the Koran and it is being changed to become compatible with modern, democratic and free societies. They also need to denounce the portions of the Koran that teach world domination by Islam which will likely never occur. Once reformed Muslims can 'police' their own and eliminate the radicals from their societies and expose them as the true 'apostates of Islam' then they will have earned credibility with Americans who mostly believe ALL Muslims support the Wahabbi teaching of violence.
It is sad to see that this is prevalent in Saudi Arabia where Whabbism has it's roots and is promoted through the world through madrasas and schools that indoctrinate young people with this radical viewpoint as true and "good". There is a lot of work and many years must pass if the reform of Islam is to occur. There will be many sacrifices to make and hardships to overcome as well as many will pay the ultimate price with their lives for such a cause. It is up to those who survive to continue their quest for reform, just as it is for the radicals to eventually dominate the world.
I plan to visit your site and read any updates that may be there and appreciate your efforts. I do pray that all people can some day live in peace with each other for the common good of mankind. We face too many challenges simply as humans needing to survive to be fighting each other for our beliefs.
Sincerely,
Email from DS:
WOW!! Am I happy to find you guys here in the US! THANKYOUTHANKYOUTHANKYOU for your organization! Britain's recent adoption of Shariah courts is not something that can ever be permitted to come to American shores....
I have read the writings of ex-Muslims Nonie Darwish and Hirsi Ali as well the works of Irshad Manji, Walid Phares and Brigitte Gabriel. I am well-aware that moderate Muslims are also targets of Islamic terror and so, from the very bottom of my heart, I thank you for your courage.
I travel mostly in liberal Democrat circles, and find my friends to be thoroughly uneducated regarding the (quiet and secret) rise of radical Islam right here in the US. And worse...some even refuse to consider reading anything from the above mentioned "recommended reading list" on this matter.
I have also noticed that only conservative/right leaning TV talk and news shows (the ones that my Democrat friends don't listen to) give air time to those such as Nonie, Hirsi, Irshad and Brigitte who have first hand knowledge of the destructive power of radical Islam and see the threat it poses right here TODAY on US soil....while America sleeps.
I can't urge you enough to PLEASE, PLEASE keep trying to reach out to the the liberal Democrats of the American public. The threat of radical Islam in the US is not something that can remain the partisan issue it clearly seems to have become.
Warm Regards,
DS
Email from N.
Greetings.
I am an individual who converted to "orthodox" Islam about three years ago, and ever since I have struggled with numerous issues, many of which your site addresses. I am so happy that I stumbled upon your site, as I would never have thought to take your approach to the Qur'an. I have explored many avenues in order to reconcile the obvious discrepancies between what many Muslims tell us Islam is all about and what many of their actions show us their true interpretation of Islam is. I could never find peace of mind, no matter which road I traveled down, be it strict "orthodoxy", sufism, Ahmadiyya, what have you. Finally, in your organization I have found something that makes sense; I can preserve my identity as a Muslim while at the same time affirm things that, contrary to what the ulema would want me to believe, I know to be true (such as gender equality, the Merciful and Compassionate aspects of God's nature, and so on). I whole-heartedly support your efforts at revising the Qur'an; in fact I was wondering if I could get a hard copy of it (I would, of course, be willing to pay for it). I also want to know how to get involved. If someone could write me back or call me, I would be very much obliged. I look forward to hearing from someone soon.
Regards,
Email from JH:
... In the meantime, I wish all of you continued success with your excellent site.
... I wrote to the Canadian Prime Minister, and various Ministers in the Government. I gave them the link to your site, and urged them to start paying attention to Secular Muslims who are courageously doing everything possible to protect western democracies. I told them that your site would be an excellent starting point to learn about the risks we face from fundamentalist Islam, and Sharia Law. All of you at Muslims Against Sharia should feel extremely proud of yourselves, because the work you are doing is truly important to the well being of our societies and freedoms.
I also want you to know that my husband and I felt tremendous relief when we discovered your site. We have many Muslim friends who we love as if they were our own flesh and blood, and would never want any of them to be harmed in any way. We found ourselves feeling conflicted because we cherish our friends, yet hated the damage we were witnessing in our country, at the hands of the fundamentalists. We wanted to fight Sharia Law and fundamentalist Islam, but didn’t want to be a part of any movement that stereotyped all Muslims. For us, your site was like a breath of fresh air, in the midst of a quagmire of generalizations and hatred. Your site gave us hope. Those of us who care about freedom and democracy can respect each other’s religious differences, work together to protect our freedoms, while fighting those who wish to destroy our democracies. For that, both my husband and I are extremely grateful to all of you at Muslims Against Sharia. If we are united, Muslims and non-Muslims will make a powerful force that will succeed in protecting the freedoms all of us hold dear.
It’s late so I hope what I have said makes sense. ...
Email from DP
Just dropping a note congratulating on this fantastic work you are doing, it is great to see that Muslims are proving the doubters wrong by demonstrating that Islam and the West are most certainly compatible. Lets hope your message becomes more and more the norm over the coming years.
Keep it up.
Email from MM:
As an American secularist who believes that all humans should share in and respect individual liberty, I would like to thank you all for your superb work. I look forward to the day, perhaps in the lifetime of my children, when Muslims, Christians, Jews, and the non-religious truly listen to each other and debate ideas without the threat of violence. If there is a God, it is surely you, and not murdering, extremist bigots that are doing his work. May Allah, or whatever god you choose to worship, bless you.
Sincerely,
Email from V:
Hi there
I just found out about your organisation and just wanted to send you a quick email thanking and congratulating you on your bravery and determination.
I think what you're doing is so important - not only to help change the world for those who have been hurt/will be hurt by Islamic rxtremism, but for Muslims who have been hurt/will be hurt by the confused views the rest of the world has on Islam as a religion - forgetting that the majority of the Muslims (thankfully) do not agree or follow with the words and actions of extremists. Again, I can't stress how important this is, and I again congratulate you on your bravery.
I wish you all in the luck in the world and I will be promoting your wonderful organisation.
V,
England
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